[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:11] Speaker B: Welcome to the Victory Show.
Hey victors. Welcome to this episode of the Victory Show. If this is your first time joining us, I'm Travis Cody, best selling author of 16 books and the creator of bestseller By Design. I've had the privilege of helping hundreds of business consultants, founders and entrepreneurs write and publish their own best selling books. And through that journey, I've discovered a really fascinating pattern. Most businesses really struggle to break past seven figures per year in revenue. So on this show, I sit down with some of the world's Most successful founders, CEOs, leaders, business owners to uncover the strategies they use to scale way past that mark so that you can do the same. So get ready for some deep insights and actionable takeaways that you can implement in your life and business. Starting now. For my guest today, while some people dabble in entrepreneurship, he was practically born with a deal memo in hand. Trap Pippin has been a serial entrepreneur since the age of five. And for the last 40 years, he's made a career out of breathing new life into struggling companies. He successfully turned around nearly 50 companies across 30 different industries, making him a true master of reinvention, strategy and operational transformation. So whether it's manufacturing, media, tech, service businesses, Tross sees what others miss and turns chaos into cash flow. His story isn't just about business. It's about pattern recognition, fearless action, and a deep love for fixing what others think is broken. So, tra, thank you so much for being here today. I appreciate it.
[00:01:44] Speaker A: You're certainly welcome, Travis.
It's Trey, by the way. But that's okay.
[00:01:49] Speaker B: All right, so my friend's Trey. He spells the E Y. So you got me.
[00:01:54] Speaker A: Yeah, well, my parents couldn't spell. I forgot to walk.
[00:01:59] Speaker B: That's, that's pretty funny. All right, so I gotta, I gotta know, what's the deal with the serial entrepreneurship? How did you get started as an entrepreneur at 5?
[00:02:10] Speaker A: Well, I found that I like candy bars and I liked reading comic books. So what I did was at 5, I got my Radio Flyer wagon. Every Saturday morning, I'd go around the neighborhood and I'd collect clothes hangers and pop bottles back, back in the day when you could get 5 cents for a pop bottle, 10 cents for the big ones.
So that was my way to satisfy my hunger for candy bars and, and comic books and what? We had an A W place right down the street. And I'd get a big one of those big containers of root beer and, and I'd go around almost every Saturday for like two, three years. And the, the Neighbors loved it. They'd collect them all for me and, and you know, there's some days I'd make three, four, five bucks and that back, back then, that was.
I could buy all kinds of stuff with that.
Models sometimes. But in the 711 where I turned into pop bottles, he, he'd pay me 50 cents to go clean up the yard and stuff. So. Wow. I did that. And then in college, in law school, I painted. I learned how to paint. So I painted houses and apartments and grew it to.
We had. Oh probably.
I had probably 20 people painting for me at one time. So.
[00:03:41] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:03:42] Speaker A: We did that. And then didn't like practicing law. So I got into a business that an uncle had that. It was called Yao Breaking Clutch.
I quit practicing law. I was a law clerk for a federal judge for a year. I didn't like that.
Practiced with the city attorney's office in Norman. Didn't like that.
[00:04:06] Speaker B: So what was it about law that you didn't like? Just too slow?
[00:04:11] Speaker A: No, I, I wanted, I, I debated in high school, I debated in college. And, and so I, I thought I'm going to be the next definitely Bailey or you know, big time trial lawyers. Well, I found out that that just doesn't happen. You don't try very many cases. So I tried a few and, and didn't.
An uncle had a small business that was.
He'd never, he'd never broken $900,000 in 30 years between 700 and $900,000 a year. And he brought me down there and I tripped over something and it was a clutch and I didn't know what it was a clutch for a big truck. And he said that's what we do here, that's a clutch. So anyway, he retired, let me have the business. And anyway, we grew it in three years to almost $5 million.
That was my first real business that I had at that point in time. I got a lot of extra help from family members that was not necessarily wanted.
[00:05:25] Speaker B: But.
[00:05:28] Speaker A: You know, they, they saw that it was actually a viable business and I decided I'd move on. And I had a chance to buy a large for me at the time, a large company, they were doing two and a half million dollars a month.
[00:05:44] Speaker B: Yeah, that's pretty good.
[00:05:45] Speaker A: In 1982. Yeah, that was a big company. I learned how to finance also.
[00:05:51] Speaker B: And you bought, you bought that. You found the company said I'm going to buy that.
[00:05:55] Speaker A: Well, they actually were buying products for me. I had gone out and sold them as a customer and I found out that they were Retiring and convinced them to sell me the company. And I was able to raise $10 million to buy the company. They financed five of it and I found five at banks. Well, wow.
What happened was this is how I got into the turnaround business.
It was an oil and gas business that rigged up trucks, heavy, heavy duty trucks and equipment stuff for Halberton, Dowell Schlumberger, people like that.
[00:06:38] Speaker B: And small companies.
[00:06:41] Speaker A: Small companies, yeah. And so anyway, and that was in 1982 that we, we bought it in August of 82. Business was great.
We did 2.7 million that month. And Penn Square bank closed.
You probably don't even know about that.
A shopping center bank here in Oklahoma City. But the guy that was doing all the loans, he out of that bank. They did, I don't know, $30 billion worth of loans.
He was giving money to everybody. Anybody that wanted it get $5 million, no problem.
So anyway, they FDIC closed it down and it snowballed into a bank that we borrowed from. They closed them next.
So anyway, in the meantime, all of our $30 million backlog was canceled by Halliburton, Dowell Schlumberger, the Western company, whatever.
[00:07:43] Speaker B: So was that all a result of the banking stuff or just economy stuff?
[00:07:47] Speaker A: Yeah, well, they didn't need, they didn't need our equipment. We had, you know, like, I want to say like $5 million worth of heavy duty truck winches, like 100 ton winches and things like that.
So anyway, I, what I had to do to save the company was I went around to Halliburton, Dowell Schlumberger, all those big companies and said, you know, you've canceled all these orders. We're out of business if you can't do something with me. So I begged, I pleaded, I got down on my knees and every one of them, and Halbert was the best, they not only renewed their business, but they actually increased some of it. But they gave it, they said, we're going to pay you over three years. We're going to take that stuff. That was, I mean they wanted immediately. And now all of a sudden they gave us three years. So it saved the company.
But in the meantime, a year later, our business had gone from two and a half million down to 300,000amonth.
A month.
So we went from 130 employees there to about 32 were left.
Ouch.
Ouch. But in, in the meantime, I mean the business started rolling back in and I think when I sold the company in 88, we were doing almost 9 or $10 million again so, and it, it now is a $50 million company.
They're still around, they're great company but that was the start. You know, I had to go to lender after lender after lender to replace you know, the five million dollar line that we had and we found an asset based lender. I think if I'm not mistaken, I think it was Wells Fargo.
They financed us and basically saved us. But it was very tough sledding. But that got me into the turnaround business back before turnarounds were a thing. But it, you know, we were able to save the company and it, I mean it, it was a great county, didn't need to be closed.
That's, that's what we did. That's how I started.
[00:10:07] Speaker B: So was your, was your family a little shocked when you spent all the time going to law school and then you came out for a couple of years and then said eh, and got into you know, at the time business. But for them they're like. He went from being an attorney to working on clutches.
[00:10:22] Speaker A: Well yeah, yeah, they, well my dad was a dentist here in Oklahoma City so he, he didn't know anything about business.
He was not a good business. He was a good, great dentist but not a good businessman. But he didn't care what I did. He, you know, for him it was, you know, oh, you're doing a paycheck doing now, so that's funny.
[00:10:47] Speaker B: So, so how do you leverage buying one business, turning it around, selling it. Like did you then purposely start looking for distressed businesses or did it just they start finding you?
[00:11:01] Speaker A: Pretty much. They, they found me. People knew that I had done that. And my next major venture was a company called Jetta Corporation here in Oklahoma City. They manufactured bathtubs and solid surface and they were losing about a million dollars a year. They were comparable in size to Perfection Equipment Company but my next door neighbor had been trying to buy them. They were for sale, the bank was all over them.
And anyway we put together, I put together a group to help buy that company and save it. And at the same time a major remanufacturer here in Oklahoma City was closing down. And so I was able to hire all of their key people, their plant manager, their chief engineer, their quality control person, people that needed to be hired at Jetta. And we went from a 30% defect rate when we bought it to about three sigma.
So I mean we went down to less than percent defect and turned it around in 90 days. We were profitable and we closed down a lot of the, we shut down the solid surface piece of the business. It was like coriander.
[00:12:22] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:23] Speaker A: And we were able to grow that business tremendously. And they, we recently sold that two years ago for eight, eight, no, eight figures.
So.
[00:12:37] Speaker B: So you had that one a while then.
[00:12:40] Speaker A: I had that one a while, yes. And other companies found me in the meantime. I found a pipe yard, an oil filled pipe reclamation yard in El Reno the bank had. And a, another turnaround guy here in town had it in bankruptcy and I went out and looked at it and was told not to buy it by all the people in the industry and wasn't smart enough to listen to him. But we bought it and it's still around.
We still own that. And it's, it's, I mean we're making, I don't know, 30, 20 to 30% EBITDA on that. So it's, it's doing great. But it was, it was a major turnaround for us.
[00:13:25] Speaker B: So you've done this enough times now. Are there like patterns that like first off, like what are the patterns that get these businesses into trouble? Let's talk about that.
[00:13:36] Speaker A: I'd say 80 to 90%.
The companies that I look at have management is almost always the, the problem.
They create it, they don't know how to get out of it.
A lot of the companies have been family owned and they've got second, third generation people in there that you know, they're used to, you know, daddy, buy me a car, you know, and paying for all my trips and you know, dad, I want to use the boat this week and you know, that kind of stuff. And so I go in and I cut that out. And if they don't like it, they, you know, the, the bank's usually behind me because the bank has brought me in there and so I get rid of all the perks and most of the people, most of the family members go and typically we just, we provide all new management in these companies and it works, it works pretty well. I, I've done it through, I've got a kind of a way, I do, I call it the six P's and I taught marketing at OU University of Oklahoma for eight years and entrepreneurship at Oklahoma City University for about 10 years.
[00:14:57] Speaker B: Nice.
[00:14:57] Speaker A: So you know, marketing, sales, I've done, you know, I feel like I'm pretty capable of doing that so.
[00:15:05] Speaker B: Well, let's talk about that too.
[00:15:07] Speaker A: Right?
[00:15:07] Speaker B: Because there's you know, there's obviously sort of the theoretical like book smart, college level marketing and. But how did you blend sort of the real world, you Know, boots on the ground, reality. With what was also being taught.
[00:15:24] Speaker A: When I go into, when I went into companies I again I, I looked at the six P's and you know, four P's is what you learn in, in marketing in college. Four P's are product price, place, promotion and I've added two more P's to that and it's people and passion.
So I look at the, the product. Are they producing a product that needs to be produced or a service that needs to be provided?
Place, are they selling at the right place? Do they have the right customer base?
You know, promotion, what's their marketing like?
You know, a lot of it's old school. You know, some of them have tried the new, you know, Instagram, that, that kind of stuff. Social media is working for them. We don't change it. If not, we'll bring in search engine optimization for almost all these companies was probably averaged on the 30th page of Google. So you know, no, nobody's finding them. They're not doing any Google Ads, any of that. So we changed that.
[00:16:33] Speaker B: And.
[00:16:35] Speaker A: You know the people, I do a deep dive on all the people I'll spend, you know, I find out who is, who's there, who's good and if they're good, I will really utilize them. I'll leverage them. And if they have passion for the business, which I call P squared, you know, you got a person with passion for the industry. You know, like we had a printing company in Houston that we had a plan manager that was so passionate about what he was doing and it was, I mean it just, but his, the management there was awful.
I mean we took it over when that GE capital on the company or alone and the management was third generation, the guy never showed up for work and that kind of stuff. So we took it.
Yeah. Shocking. We took it over and, and then, and then.
[00:17:30] Speaker B: Was he shocked when he, he was replaced?
[00:17:34] Speaker A: Yeah, it was, it was kind of weird.
I went into his office the first day and he wouldn't let me go into his bathroom. So that night I snuck in and, and he had a weird dude candles. He had pictures of his dad who started the company all over the bathroom.
[00:17:53] Speaker B: And it's like a little shrine.
[00:17:56] Speaker A: Little shrine.
[00:17:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
I shouldn't laugh but I mean you can't make this, you can't make this stuff up, right?
[00:18:03] Speaker A: You can't, you can't make that up. But anyway, that's, you know, that's typical of the situation. We had another furniture company that we took over that walked in and the owner, his wife, his three kids were all on salary and not small salaries.
They all had either Porsche Panameras or G Wagons, whatever. So we took all that away and.
[00:18:32] Speaker B: The company was paying for it.
[00:18:34] Speaker A: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Plus salaries on that. On top of that, the kids weren't, I mean, even out of high school and they were making $30,000 a year. So.
[00:18:42] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:18:44] Speaker A: We, we fixed that, sold that company. But you know, that's, it's like, it's.
[00:18:51] Speaker B: Fascinating to me, right? So you have these family owned companies that are in trouble and they, you know, they're on the verge of bankruptcy or in bankruptcy and then when you come in and you restructure everything and then they get shocked by it and it's like, well, we can do this or in like two months you don't get anything. Right. That's the thing that was always fascinating to me is that the, the, the rationale behind some of that stuff.
[00:19:13] Speaker A: What?
[00:19:14] Speaker B: Has there been an industry that has been like the most challenging industry for you to come in and execute a turnaround or is it is business, business, business, regardless of where what you're in?
[00:19:25] Speaker A: Well, one thing that I've told every banker that I've ever met is that I can run any company out there. Maybe not as well as some, but you know, if you apply business basics to any company, I think I can, I think I could run any company in America. Maybe not as well as some people, but I could get it, I could turn it around, I could fix it and make it profitable and then you know, bring in major CEOs, CFOs, whatever to take it from there. But I can fit, I feel like I can fix any company with those basics. I mean, I've got a pretty good financial background anyway. So the, you know, we run the 13 week rolling forecasts and you know, we do all the numbers and stuff, but bankers make sure that you're doing that.
They want to make sure you got coverage, ratio on sales and make sure the cash flow is there to cover everything you're trying to do.
[00:20:31] Speaker B: But so let's, let's talk about that then a little bit. So, you know, a lot of the people I'm working with are kind of in the half a million to a million they're trying to scale. You know, some of them want to get to 3,5 million a year.
What?
And from my experience talking to them, a lot of them are pretty clueless on the actual numbers of their business. Right. And usually it's because you get somebody like me Passionate about something, hangs out a shingle thinking if I can do 100,000 a year, I'm good. And suddenly they're at half a million a year going like oh, I could be a lot bigger. Right. So they have a talent at coaching maybe not necessarily running a business.
So what are, what are maybe three or four things that someone in that position, like what are the skills they need to develop to be able to successfully lead that company to hit the, you know, a 3, 5, $10 million run rate?
[00:21:22] Speaker A: You know I, I, I think that one of the things that most of these small business guys that I, I see and I have been in groups like Vistage before and TAB and things like that that are great for small businesses, they're really good because you know you get around small business owners like yourself. Like you know, 10 or so I, I'd recommend like Vestige to anybody.
I was a facilitator for those companies and, and they're, they're great. Could you get 10 or 12 people that are like minded and they want to grow that.
[00:22:02] Speaker B: So explain Vistage for people that may not know what that is.
Pardon?
[00:22:08] Speaker A: Vistage is a group, nationwide group I think any, every city in America has a Vistage group.
And I don't mean for this to be a vistage.
[00:22:21] Speaker B: Sure. You know, yeah, but I know a lot of people are probably gonna be like what, they haven't heard of it?
[00:22:26] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a group that you can google it, you can check it out, but it's a group of like 20, 25 companies and sometimes in two groups but you meet every month and you have facilitator that comes to your place. I'd recommend that for any small business.
They come, they, they'll analyze your business, they'll tell you what's going on, right?
What's good, what are you doing right, what's going, what are you doing wrong? And so many of these people like you say, or maybe they're a good salesperson but they're not a financial person. They don't know that. You know when they tell the bank everything's great, you know, we're growing at 20% a year. But you know, the banker goes well why aren't you profitable?
And they don't, they really can't answer that.
[00:23:16] Speaker B: So yeah, I, you know I used to do copywriting and direct marketing and I worked with, with companies where the, the founder of the company was remarkable sales guy, right. Guys that could make it rain money, you know and they're get the businesses up to 78 million a year. And then you go behind the scenes and it's chaos because they didn't have the skill of running a business.
But whenever they get into trouble, they just be that they will go out and make it rain enough money to get them out of trouble. But you know, behind the scenes the employees were just stressed out of their minds and working crazy hours and everybody. That, that was the first time that I, I had an insight in because, you know, as a young kid, I'm looking at, oh man, this guy's making 8 million a year. He must be a genius business guy. No, he's good with offers and he's good at closing people. But the rest of it, you know, sometimes they were almost successful despite themselves.
[00:24:06] Speaker A: Yeah, I've seen a lot of that.
I one time I had a, a Russian gentleman that had started in the manufacturing computers back in the day, back when, before you had the really big, you know, anybody could buy it. There was a big monthly magazine that everybody advertised in. And he hired me. He was in Salon, Ohio, right outside Cincinnati. And, and he said, can you, can you grow my company?
We're about $8 million a year and where do you want to go?
So anyway, we crafted a marketing plan and I said, can you cover this? This is back in the day when the Pentium 90 was the hot processor and stuff. It was a company called Micro X. And anyway, I crafted a marketing plan for him and he said, I'll cover it, but I mean, his margins were slim. And I said, you know, you're going to outgrow this pretty quickly. And so anyway, he said, don't worry about, I'll get the money. We'll figure it out. We'll figure it out. And so he didn't ask me for operational help, just marketing.
So we had, we created a marketing plan and the next year he hit $105 million in revenue.
[00:25:30] Speaker B: And just a little bit of growth.
[00:25:33] Speaker A: Three months later, he was, he was out of business.
Yeah, I mean, his, his margins were so slim that he couldn't keep up. He was way behind with everybody. And he said, what do I do now? I said, gotta close that.
[00:25:47] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm working with an author right now. And, and she, she deals specifically in operations. She's an operations consultant, you know, fractional coo. And her book is titled how to Grow Yourself out of Business.
And it was exactly that. She's like, everybody thinks scale, scale, scale, and then people don't address the, she's like, you know, there's new challenges at every benchmark. You go along and she's like, you can scale yourself right out of a really fantastic business if you're not careful. It's just what that guy sounds like he did.
[00:26:17] Speaker A: That's exactly that. That happens a lot when they don't understand.
You know, I tried to tell, I tried to tell him that, you know, you can't, you can't do this, you don't have the capital.
Anyway, he, he wouldn't listen to me, so.
[00:26:33] Speaker B: Well, at least you know, your marketing was effective.
[00:26:38] Speaker A: All the business he wanted, which he asked for.
[00:26:41] Speaker B: So, so when you, when you come in then, and you're replacing teams, especially management teams. What, what are, what are some benchmarks of, of a, of a good manager? Manager, like either CEO or CEO. Like what specifically? How do you, like when you're hiring? How do you know? Like, yeah, this guy's got it. Or like, no, this guy shouldn't be in a management position.
[00:27:04] Speaker A: I've been fortunate enough to find a really good group, group of guys that I can place into almost any company. Like, I've got one guy that we've done three or four turnarounds and he's now running Mike Sleeper. He's running the pipe yard.
[00:27:22] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:27:23] Speaker A: He's an aeronautical engineer by training. But we, he started out with me at the company in, in Houston, the printing company. And then we went from there. He went from there to another place and then he took HNO sports and ran that. I don't know if you know that company, but out of Redmond, Washington, they make, they invented the slalom back in the 50s.
[00:27:48] Speaker B: Yep, yep.
[00:27:50] Speaker A: Wakeboards and that kind of stuff. But it was, it was a total disaster. That company was like, turned it around and, and fixed all the issues.
[00:28:01] Speaker B: It's so amazing to hear like some of these companies, you know, because so many people I work with, they think, oh, if I can just hit 10 million a year, like, you know, my, all my problems will be solved. And yet you, and you have some of these companies that are building globally recognized brands doing 10 or 12 million a year, and yet they're just a dis, like it's.
As a business owner, especially somebody who's never crossed a million dollars a year. Right. I think most people look at that go, man, like, how does that even happen? Like, how's that even possible? It's hard to comprehend that you could reach that point and, and then actually be in more trouble than, you know, if you're a smaller, smaller company.
[00:28:41] Speaker A: Well, you know, the, the, I think the issue is they don't, they don't self reflect and they don't plug holes in their management. At some point in time they may be like you say, maybe a great salesperson, but operations wise, maybe they're, I don't know, printing or doing some other stuff. And they don't have, they can't, they can't skill set somebody. But you know, there, there are people out there. I would say that there are people out there that you can find, that I can find, or I mean anybody can find that are very qualified. There are a lot of people out there. Look at your competitors as an example. Find somebody, you know, networking.
I found a lot of people just by networking over the years and you know, in Rotary Club or in the Vistage Group or the Tab Group, it's, I mean, those people are out there. There are a lot of CFOs, as an example. There are a lot of, a lot of small companies that don't understand the financial end of it. There are a lot of CFO people out there that do it just on for hire.
And I mean, there are a ton of those operational.
[00:30:06] Speaker B: So like a small company that's in the half a million, 2 million, they could hire a CFO and say, hey, I want to hire you to come in and rip apart my business and show me everything that's wrong with it and how to rebuild it.
And that's like just a, instead of bringing them on as an employee, they're like more of like a CFO consultant.
[00:30:24] Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah. They can, they can tell you that, you know, where, where your problems are. They can typically tell you that you've got an inventory issue. You've got, you know, the, the industry. What does the industry do? Like, if you're manufacturing, what's the average?
And there are numbers out there that you can find, you know, what's, what is your, your industry average as far as gross, you know, gross margins. And if you're like a 30% gross margin and the industry is at 50, you're doing something wrong.
Interesting.
[00:31:02] Speaker B: So do you have any advice that you give? Like with companies you take over, do you usually try to like work with the existing management structure or do you take a little bit and watch and, and, and determine it? Like, so have you ever gone in and go, okay, these guys are good enough? And then like, what advice do you give those guys to help them sort of get out of their own way?
[00:31:23] Speaker A: Yeah, it depends on the, the situation. But every, I mean, I, I knew no two companies have ever been the same. That's the problem.
The problems are similar. I mean, they don't know how to manage their cash flow. They.
Some companies, they start making a little money, they don't realize that they've got to put that money back in to the company to help it grow.
[00:31:48] Speaker B: No, I got to put that back into my Porsche.
[00:31:51] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
My wife's lifestyle needs to be, you know, I need to, you know, fix her up and, you know, take care of her and everything else. And all of a sudden, you know, she doesn't realize that, you know, we're growing so fast. We, you know, we're. We're going broke because we're taking so much money out. And that's, that's an issue. That's a big issue with a lot of these smaller companies.
[00:32:18] Speaker B: So. Interesting. So if somebody's listening, reading this chapter in the book, listening to this episode, they like what they're doing.
[00:32:25] Speaker A: How.
[00:32:25] Speaker B: How does someone get in contact with you, maybe to either hire you to come in for some consulting or like, maybe to be involved in some of the companies you've got running?
How do we find you?
[00:32:38] Speaker A: T.
[email protected] is one. My phone number is 405-834-6336.
And I, I get in my phone number to every company employee that I've ever worked for, and I still get calls occasionally from people that I worked with 20 years ago.
[00:33:00] Speaker B: Just checking in, telling you where they're at.
[00:33:03] Speaker A: Yeah, a lot, you know, a lot of success stories. I, you know, I, they, they tell me, they'll call me up and say, you know, thanks.
You know, we reached $10 million this year. And, you know, I've got several of those. Those companies, so I'm really proud of those.
[00:33:19] Speaker B: I was going to say, it's interesting when you, when you focus on people and try to help nurture people's passions, what will come out of that, especially over the long term?
And, you know, I think in a lot of businesses, that sometimes gets lost.
[00:33:34] Speaker A: It does. It does.
[00:33:38] Speaker B: All right, Trey, this has been a fantastic conversation. Thank you so much for your time. I've enjoyed chatting.
[00:33:44] Speaker A: Well, thank you, Travis. I appreciate it.
[00:33:49] Speaker B: All right, take care.
[00:33:50] Speaker A: I hope I've helped you some.
[00:33:51] Speaker B: This, this has been fantastic.
[00:33:53] Speaker A: I've loved it.
Well, anything else I can do, I'll be happy to help you or anybody else out there, too, so.
