[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:13] Speaker B: Hey Victors. Welcome to this week's Victory show. If this is your first time joining us, I'm Travis Cody, bestselling author of 16 books. And I've had the privilege of helping hundreds of business consultants, founders and entrepreneurs write and publish their own best selling books. And in that journey, I've discovered a really fascinating pattern. A lot of businesses hit a revenue plateau, usually around a million dollars, and they struggle to break through it. So on this show, I sit down with some of the world's most successful CEOs, leaders and business owners to uncover the strategies they use to overcome these plateaus and scale their businesses to new heights. And more importantly, how you can do the same for your business. Today I'm excited to welcome a guest who is equal parts strategist, innovator and leader. Someone who doesn't just drive growth, but does so with integrity, insight and heart. Dave Seligson is a dynamic executive with a track record of transforming businesses through data driven decision making, operational excellence, and forward thinking leadership. With experience as multidisciplinary C suite executive, Dave has mastered the art of scaling businesses, building high performing teams and developing innovative solutions to complex challenges. And he's not just about the numbers, he's about people. His leadership philosophy is rooted in fostering both organizational success and personal development, ensuring that the businesses thrive while the individuals with them also grow and evolve. Known for his ability to identify challenges, then craft impactful strategies and implement real change, Dave has left his mark on countless organizations by setting new benchmarks for excellence. So if you're looking for insights on business growth, leadership, and how to create a winning company culture, you're in for a fantastic conversation today. Dave, thank you so much for being here.
[00:01:48] Speaker A: Thanks for having me.
[00:01:49] Speaker B: What I love fascinating with what you've done is that obviously you've been boots on the ground in some pretty big significant businesses. But eventually that led into your consulting company, ATO Consulting, where you now kind of get to have your hands in all levels of all different sizes of businesses. So we talk about this concept of scaling and what are those challenges are and we'll get into that in a minute. And what I love about your experience is the fact that you've got such a broad range and viewpoint from so many perspectives from, you know, 1 to 2 million businesses, 10 million businesses, 100 million businesses, more. Before we get into that, let's just talk a little bit about your journey in the business world. Like did you set out to become a business person or was this something that sort of just called You?
[00:02:33] Speaker A: Yeah. Interesting circumstance kind of drove me. So my career started in education. I was a teacher and a principal in the school system for 15 years, taught some college master's level classes. And by circumstance, moving to Texas from the east coast, the real estate market was so wonderful. And I was like, I need to get, like, I want to learn how to invest in real estate. I don't know what this looks like. And I met a gentleman by chance who kind of coached me to form an llc, form a series llc, to raise some private capital. And in that process, I took what he taught me and I formalized it and we started to go and coach others. And so it wasn't long after that I started to work with him and I left education and we started to help people raise private capital and start and write business plans. And then the last step of that process was I kind of found my niche, which was I got really good at helping people figure out where their gaps were to evaluate why their business isn't growing, and then put into plans, strategies and structures to overcome that gap. That became kind of my wheelhouse. So I kind of learned by doing methodology for me. But again, educator saw a way to go turn that education background into like business consulting education. And that was 25 years ago. And I've been working with businesses, helping them overcome their obstacles and leaders to help them overcome their obstacles ever since.
[00:03:52] Speaker B: So what part of that process did you. Was it that you started realizing just how important it was for the business owner and the founder to actually be up leveling their skills? Yeah.
[00:04:02] Speaker A: So as I started to evaluate in my company, 8O, the first step in my process is the asset to objective or a 2o process. It's a mapping process, and it's just a way that I've learned to quickly identify gaps, patterns of the same gap all the time. And so depending on where businesses were in terms of their growth period and their scaling, I noticed that there were some of the same key issues for companies that were small, under five to ten employees, under a million or one and a half, and they just couldn't get past that mark. It was almost exclusively this kind of pattern of the owner, the founder, who would sell something wonderful and then be embedded in the delivery of that, of that project. And so they weren't selling because they were delivering. And then that project got over, they got short on cash flow, they had to go sell the next thing. And it was this repeated cycle. And they might have some people to help, but they never got past that. And so I realized that companies that were that small, the owner is going to have this issue. They're going to have this issue of changing their approach from being a founder to actually being a CEO who runs a business as opposed to a founder who is the business. If that makes sense.
[00:05:07] Speaker B: That makes a lot of sense, you know, so my background is in. I have a background in direct response marketing. And one of the really interesting insights that happened as I was working in that space is I have the. I had the fortune to work with in that industry, some of the biggest guys in the space, eight to ten million dollars a year businesses. And so, like, if it was Hollywood, it's kind of like working with the Spielbergs. Right. In that, in that industry. And what was so fascinating is when I got behind the scenes, you quickly realized that a lot of these founders that built the company, they built the company because they were fantastic copywriters and they could sell anything. And so when it came to being able to make it rain money, like they could do that. When it came to the skill of actually running a business and managing a team, it wasn't there. And it was like, behind the scenes was a crazy nightmare and stress and everybody's losing their mind and it was super dysfunctional. And that happened to two clients in a row that I worked with. And that was the first time that I had the inkling of like, oh, being able to make money online and then running a functionality business are two different skill sets. And most guys that know how to make it rain money think they don't need to learn those skills because they're like, well, I can just go do this thing and we can make half a million dollars in a week.
[00:06:14] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, I, I've learned really that there are. I was sitting here counting while you were, while I was waiting for us to get started. There's five main areas that seem to crop up that, that impact scale and your ability to do so. The first, they're not really in any order, but the first one is the owner or CEO's ability to evaluate themselves honestly and understand what their highest and best use is. So there's kind of an internal understanding of where am I best? What is the most important thing that I could do to help grow this business as opposed to like, what else can other people do? What can I delegate? Or this isn't my highest or best use, but I keep getting sucked into it. So that idea of, of the leader of the business, the CEO, really not understanding how to focus on their highest and best purpose and then. And Then the other four things are how to collect and understand and use data to help drive decisions. So. So what data are you collecting, what problems are you trying to solve? And how do you leverage that information to make changes? So that's the second one. Third one is creating a continual cycle of innovation. A lot of times companies will get going off of a great idea. They will sit on that idea, they will like, kind of skyrocket up. Now I'm at this plateau, and they're not innovating and thinking about what's next, and they're riding that coattail, and all of a sudden they. They've. Technology time have passed them by and they're trying to catch up from behind. So. So that's the third one. The fourth one for me is really looking at. I just totally forgot what the other two were. Hold on.
I'm like. I got all excited about we'll come.
[00:07:43] Speaker B: Back to him because I had a question about the first one.
[00:07:46] Speaker A: Yeah, go.
[00:07:46] Speaker B: How many. How many CEOs actually have that have the awareness that they need to grow? And if they hire you and you come in and you're like, hey, we need some honest perspective here. How many of them actually are able to hear that? And do you have any particular case studies where somebody was able to overcome that in scale and where somebody was just like, that was their wall and they never got past it and they just stayed where they were at?
[00:08:09] Speaker A: Yeah, both. Honestly, every. Every CEO and founder has to do that evaluation. In fact, you have to do it constantly because it changes as your business grows and changes. I can think of one that right off the bat that was caught in that sort of hamster wheel of everything on their shoulders, and they were able to get out of it. Their business actually took a slight dip while they did that, but they were able to hire other leaders. Those other leaders were able to take on and execute for them, and they were able to go step on working on the business, finding partnerships, which is another one of those that I couldn't think of before, but developing a partnership network and growing through partners. But they were able to go out and find capital to manage cash, which is the fifth one, by the way. So we've got partners and cash flow, but to do the things that a CEO needs to do and let the other leaders in the business. So that. That's a great case study. That particular business that I'm thinking of was stuck at one and a half million for I think it was four years. And then they grew to $120 and $20 million company over the next three years because of that. So. So that's one. And I could give you case after case. Right now I'm working with someone who works in. And she is incapable of allowing her gifts, of allowing herself to step out of the business and stop working on every little detail. And that company is now 30 years old and has never crossed the $2 million threshold. And actually, the closer they get to $2 million, the worse they're doing financially. They're actually more healthy when they're back at like, 1.2, 1.3, because they just. The. The CEO cannot get out of the weeds and she can't grow the team accordingly. The expenses outpace the revenue.
[00:09:40] Speaker B: Yeah, it's interesting. That's one of the. The things I've noticed with guys who build online marketing businesses. They. Because when they. When they start again, right when they're bootstrapping, they are doing everything. And so then they do get a proficiency in a lot of different things. And I remember one person who was. I worked with, and he was doing an 8 million doll, but he eventually only had like, two employees because he was doing everything. And I remember one time there was like, some sort of graphic design thing, and he was. Spent like eight hours on this. I was like, why are we not hiring? And he's like, well, I could hire, but then I got to train the guy and then I got to do the thing, and he's like, and it's just fast, and then they're going to mess it up, and then I got to fix it anyway, and so it's just faster if I just do it myself. And I just remember being so curious. I was like, yeah, but you're complaining that you're working on this thing for eight hours. So, like, can't you get, like, to a point where someone's 70% proficient and be able to let it go, but a lot of people can't?
There's.
[00:10:31] Speaker A: There's a mindset that's very prevalent that says the time it'll take me to find somebody and train them to do this thing, I will have it done already. Like, I hear that all the time. And they're not going to do it as well as I could, so I might as well just do it. So that mindset is limiting because what they're. Even if. Even if you trained and took the time to hire and. Or find somebody and you trained them to do the job, and they were 80% of you, they taking 100% of that task off. And so even if you have to step in now and again to help fill a gap or to do some qa, QC or to, to, you know, guide or mentor, whatever. It's only a small fraction of the time and it allows you to work on the things that grow the business. People who know how to deliver services effectively or to have a great idea often don't know how to scale and grow a business because they're not thinking about growing by partnership. They're not thinking about cash, they're not looking at data. All those things I said before. And that's what, see, that's what the founder, CEO has to be able to do.
[00:11:22] Speaker B: You know, I saw, I'm gonna say he's a young kid, he's in his 30s.
I think they're doing an eight figure your business. But even maybe five, six years ago, they, they were, they were not even, you know, they were barely seven figure business. He was really good at sales copy and making an offer and pitching. And he was stuck for a while. And then he found somebody who was really good with Facebook ads. And so then the two of them got into. He's like, you do the ads and I'll do the copy. And within, I think 18 months, they were doing 7 or 8 million a year because they, they got together. When I saw that, I was like, man, that was a lesson I wish I would have learned years ago.
I think that one took me way too long to learn.
[00:11:56] Speaker A: So, yeah, there's.
[00:11:56] Speaker B: Sorry, no, go ahead, go ahead.
[00:11:58] Speaker A: I was going to say, you know, that, that that's an individual partnership and also finding business like company partnerships and managing them. And the way I like to think about that is, is for every partner, you need to have certain criteria of what you determine is a healthy partner. And so maybe there's six, seven criteria and you track that on a regular basis across all your partners and you get a health score. So like if I only have $10 and I have 10 partners, does everybody get a dollar or do I get rid of two of them and somebody and I double down on the ones that are most, you know, that provide the most return. And you also need to build out a partnership business case. And so here's my investment of time and money and resources and technology or whatever the other thing is, and here's what we're getting out of that partnership and if those things are double or positive or whatever, you're going to want to put more money into those things. And so that health score and that, that business case by, by partnership, those two things combined Help you to figure out which ones are actually providing the most value. Because it easy to sign a piece of paper that says we're partnering, but let's go find one that's actually creating value for your business and helping you grow. That's a little bit harder.
[00:13:00] Speaker B: So somebody's listening to this episode and they're, they're think that, you know, maybe they're in considering a partnership right now and they were just about to sign the paper and they're like, oh, I need that. Is that something that a 2o can like? Is that something, you know, facilitate?
[00:13:11] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:13:12] Speaker B: The health check and build out a.
[00:13:14] Speaker A: Specific model for your partnership network that is what, what would be right for your business and your industry in terms of health. And then help show you how to create that, that, that business case, that sort of return on your investment. Have a model for that that I've built too.
[00:13:30] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:13:30] Speaker A: I love it.
[00:13:31] Speaker B: All right, so let's talk about something because you're the first person I've met who has such a deep experience working specifically with leaders and specifically CEOs. So what is it that most people think a CEO is and what does a CEO actually need to be?
[00:13:45] Speaker A: Yeah, so most people think that the CEO is the person who started the business and who understands every aspect of that business and is able in and fulfill or be the closer or be the whatever. Like they're the ones who are able to understand and manage all the aspects of business. That is the last thing that a CEO should be. What a CEO needs to be and understand is they need to be creating the vision for where that company is going in the future. And they need to create the systems people in process that underpin that so that they can surface those ideas so that they can figure out where they're going. They need to be responsible for funding and finance and cash flow. That's the biggest thing. Cash flow. I don't care about your P and L statement. I've seen so many companies that have healthy P and L statements and no cash flow and they fail. So they have to be responsible for cash flow. And then they're looking at some of those key strategic partnerships. So really EOS is kind of a popular framework for small businesses. That CEO is a visionary. They're looking for where the company is going and where they're going to be. And they're enabling and creating process and holding accountability, making sure that we're on path towards that growth. That's the responsibility. And to find right people to execute underneath. That's key.
[00:14:56] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, the right, the right people is key. So say I'm a founder, I've gotten to the million dollar mark, I've got a couple employees. Maybe they're just an executive support sort of role. Like how does this, how do you as a founder know, like what, what's the most important hire at that sort of level, let's say in the 1 to 2 million dollars. If they want to break through that word, I should say probably, like what's the three key hires they want to be looking towards?
[00:15:21] Speaker A: Yeah, I would say the easiest answer is first, replace yourself. I don't care what you call the role, I don't care if you want to call it president or COO or whatever, but just replace yourself because most likely you're spending more of your time working in the business and on. And it's the, in the business stuff that you need to get to somebody else. So, so that probably means somebody who's going to take over running the sales or part of the business and somebody else who can run the systems, process and operations part of the business. Business. Those would be the two main hires. And then depending on how busy everything gets and what you need, I would, I would look for that executive assistant kind of person that can help you with those mundane tasks and emails and travel arrangements and those kinds of things. But, but really it's, it's. Sales and operations are going to be those two parts of the business that you're going to need somebody. Now I might change that depending on the industry. You might need someone who's a technical person or whatever. But for the most part, operations and sales is going to be the two kinds of leaders that you're looking for. People who align and who can step in and do the things that you're currently taking on shoulders.
[00:16:20] Speaker B: Yeah, I love it. Then, then that's true. So what should a CEO be looking for with an operations person? I mean, is it easy as coming down and going like, I'm just going to go to EOS and find an integrator?
[00:16:30] Speaker A: Yeah. No, because, because integrators are typically. Integrators are the ones that manage your leadership team, hold them accountable, but they're not the ones that are executing it. So it's not an integrator. An integrator comes in when you have a leadership team in place. They're not the ones who are going to go drive the actual operations. You usually somebody that sits underneath of them that, that is managing that. So for operations you need somebody who's got industry experience and you need to make sure that you define what the key skills are to be successful in that operational role. And they have that and it's going to vary by, by business. And that's something else that I help with. There are a couple of companies like Ability Map and some others that have online assessments that help define those skills. But at the end of the day, you might need somebody who's great with contracts. That might be something you need. You might need somebody who understands high strategic consulting and what reports and deliverables look like. Like if you're working with a Deloitte or an Accenture or something like that. You might need somebody who's got financial acumen if you're providing financial services.
You know, somebody who can handle logistics if you're, you know, transportation company. So you need somebody who's got deep experience but also knows how to build out a team. So you're kind of looking for a unicorn at this point in an early stage business. Somebody who can build out a team but also has the expertise to be able to manage that operational stuff. And you got to stick to your guns. When you're hiring you have to make sure that that hires the right people in the right seat. And so if you only find one or two and you think well, we'll compensate. No, like I heard somebody say it this way. If I'm interviewing somebody and I know that I need both of those, that unicorn and it's a hell yeah, that's great. Anything other than hell yeah is a hell no. You cannot compromise that role. And the same thing really with sales has to be the same. That salesperson has to understand your sales cycle, understands how to sell either strategically or transactionally depending on what your service and process is. And they need to be able to build out a team because if they're going to be successful, you're going to need more of them. And so sometimes the best salesperson is not always the best person to lead a sales team.
[00:18:24] Speaker B: That is for sure. So something that's been sort of seems to be kind of all the rage and I think a lot of that has to do with eos is the, the idea of getting fractional leadership. And I, I noticed a 2o does do fractional leadership on the case by case business. When does fractional leadership and make sense for a company and what would be like specific use cases for that?
[00:18:46] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean I love it. Very few companies that are a million to 2 million need a full time CFO. You don't need a chief financial officer for full time but you need that expertise and you need somebody in your leadership meetings that can offer strategy advice from that financial position. And if that expertise isn't in house, you really need that outside opinion. Then a fractional person makes sense because you just don't, you can't afford to pay a full time person. So for me, CFO's makes sense. I think fractional coos is really, really tough because of the previous things that I just talked about around chief operating officer and all the things they need to know and do. And I think that there are fractional people who can help build partnerships because you might not need that full time. I would not want a fractional salesperson. I don't want them building out my sales team and on one business and industry and then doing same over there. But marketing is another one that sometimes can be fractional. You probably need not probably you will need full time marketing resources and technology. Sure. But your chief marketing officer, your marketing lead who's going to provide strategy and provide input into your leadership team that can be fractional for smaller businesses. So those are probably CFO and CMO are probably the two resources that I see the most. I don't see very many fractional partnership people. But I think that we're missing the boat because partnerships is probably the, the fastest and best way to grow a small business. And you can't hire somebody full time at the price they need to be able to build that. And I don't know that it's a full time job when you're a one and a half million dollar company. Let them grow themselves into a full time job. Anyway. Those are, those are the three things that I think can be fractional and I'm a big fan of that fractional support because it's, it's stabilizing something. And the most important piece is I need that expertise feeding into my leadership decisions and my leadership team so that, that, that it helps us to consider those aspects before we plot a course. I love it.
[00:20:35] Speaker B: All right, so if somebody's listening to this episode and they're, they're loving what you do, like first off, how did, how does somebody find you and get involved with the things that A2L Consulting does?
[00:20:45] Speaker A: Yeah, that's easy. I didn't know we were going to do a plug, but I'm happy to do that. They can go to adaoconsulting.com and there's a form for contact and a whole bunch of information. They can do that. They can email
[email protected] that's all pretty easy too. And I'm on LinkedIn, so any of those things are really easy. But the first piece is helping. So my process has evolved. I think of it as your business or your leadership is a Jenga tower, one of those wooden Jenga towers.
[00:21:13] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:13] Speaker A: And I don't know what's inside that because all I can see is the outside. And so I want to knock it over, like theoretically break it down, kind of deconstruct it and then rebuild the pieces. So that I understand. And that's what the A2O process is about, is helping me understand your business from a technology, a finance and operational, a leadership, all those different aspects that we talk about and then out of that comes the gaps. So I'm basically going to understand your business pretty quickly. A couple weeks, maybe a couple of meetings and then some follow up and then, and then say here's the 10 things that I think you need to do. And that becomes my recommendations and here's how I would recommend we mitigate those. And that becomes really the bulk of the engagement is what happens next. So that's, that's how that process works for me. But it's pretty easy to get a hold and I'm happy to talk to anybody and share advice and thinking and that kind of stuff.
[00:21:59] Speaker B: So is there a sweet spot for the size of company that you really like to work with?
[00:22:03] Speaker A: It tends to be on the smaller side, but every once in a while I get a project with a bigger company and it works out really well. So I would say none, but it tends to be on the smaller side. But typically companies that have leadership teams that are somewhere from three to eight in size and then the company will end up being underneath of that and they typically will have somewhere between 50 to 150 people in those businesses. That seems to be the place where I have the most impact because that they're at that plateau point and I can help them get beyond that plateau. And then I also do a lot of executive coaching where I'm just helping to enable a leader. Whether it's the founder and the owner or the CEO or one of their, you know, COOs or whatever, helping them to evaluate highest and best purpose, how to leverage data, how to think strategically around selling and methodologies, how to innovate, create a process for innovation, how to focus and understand cash and build partnerships. Those are the things that I tend to help. And it's not always the CEO that I end up working with.
[00:23:00] Speaker B: Wow, that's fantastic. So I'm just Curious. How did you, where did the ADO process come out of in your, your journey? Like where, where, where was that developed?
[00:23:09] Speaker A: It was that guy that. I told you he did it informally. We were at a whiteboard. He called it a grease board because that's, that's what we used to call it back in the day because it.
[00:23:18] Speaker B: Used to be the grease pencils, not.
[00:23:19] Speaker A: The biggest T account. So he drew like a T chart on the, on the whiteboard and on one side he put assets, and on the other side he put objectives, A2O assets and objectives. And, and we spent two or three sessions on the objective side. And he would just ask all kinds of questions and drill in and, and refine and push back and make sure that my objectives are really my objectives. And what did I mean by that? And then, and then we looked at my assets, which were everything that I have available to me today to meet those objectives. And out of that we would very clearly go, okay, you don't have enough to get to that one. So what are we going to do about that? So that's, that's where that came from.
[00:23:54] Speaker B: What a fascinating way to look at it. Because I don't think I've ever heard anyone explain it that way before. Of, of what do you have and where are you trying to get to? Because most, you know, Tony Robbins, dream big, dream as big as you can and then shoot for it. But if you don't have that, the assets to get there, you just can end up having years of frustration going like, but Tony Robbins says, I just have to breathe and I can get to that.
[00:24:14] Speaker A: There's a place for all that. But I think understanding the current state helps you to understand where you're limited, what things are not in alignment with where you're trying to achieve, and what's holding you back from breaking that ceiling. And that's really essential. So it's understanding that current state and then making sure that we have right targets and goals in the future. And they can be as big, wild and hairy as you want them to be. Those 10 year BHAGs are fine, but what's really important is really understanding what's holding you back and doing that current state evaluation. It's like a balance scale. You have to have both of those things. All right.
[00:24:45] Speaker B: I like to end each conversation with three, three questions. So question one. If you could go back and give yourself your younger self one piece of advice, what would it be?
[00:24:53] Speaker A: And why shave your head sooner and grow a beard sooner? Love it. That'd be the first thing, because the only thing anybody ever remembers that I do or say is that guy has a heck of a beard. So that's probably the thing I complimented on the Bose.
[00:25:04] Speaker B: As I like to say, my friend, you have the gift of beard.
[00:25:07] Speaker A: Yeah, I appreciate. Yeah, yeah, there you go. When it comes to, when it comes to business, I guess it's kind of cliche, but just risk more, you know. I stepped out. I became a principal at 28 years old in Fairfax County Public Schools, Virginia, which is in and around D.C. it was one of the leading school districts. There's no reason for a 28 year old to be a principal, period. You just should not be. And leaving that and starting my own business was fun and scary, but I just have that, that, that bend to if there's a door, I'm going to step through it and see what happens. It's always just been sort of my. And my faith is super important too. So, you know, trying to take out with me into that place is really important as well for me. But I wish I would have learned the faith aspect a little bit sooner and I wish I would have thought about how to be a little bit more discerning around what risks to take. So that, that'd probably be, you know, kind of that data driven part of me that says, you know, forecast a little bit, do a little pros and cons, like think through what the options are instead of just stepping through the door blindly. That's probably one of the things that I would like to tell myself. I love it.
[00:26:08] Speaker B: So what belief or mindset shift has had the biggest impact on your success and your happiness?
[00:26:13] Speaker A: You know, this is probably a strange one, I think, maybe for you or listeners, but it's, it's the word consistency. I realized that through the ups and downs of life that I had the ability to maintain my own consistency in my family, in my faith and in my approach to business and work. And that consistency literally over years has paid more dividends than anything else I've ever done. It creates trust, it creates confidence, it creates people know what to expect from you and that consistency. And so when you think about being an entrepreneur and being consistent, they don't go together very often. But I do try to be consistent with every relationship and that's probably had the biggest impact. And I did not understand about consistency until my first family kind of fell apart through a divorce and different things. And so I knew that the only way that I could love my ex, to love my kids was to be consistent in that approach. Coach through that difficult time and just pay dividends in the relationships that we have now. On the other side of that.
[00:27:10] Speaker B: Wow. That's amazing. All right, final question. What's the best investment you've ever made in yourself?
[00:27:15] Speaker A: Oh, that's a good question.
[00:27:16] Speaker B: I'm bringing the good ones today.
[00:27:17] Speaker A: Yeah man I I investing in other people has been kind of my whole life so when I had an answer when you said that I what's the best investment I've ever made it wasn't going to be a $1 but then you said myself I I would have to say I'd have to give that credit to to my second wife to jumping in and and living life eight years now with her and beside her has has just transformed every part of my my happiness and my faith. That would have to be the best investment that I've ever made for sure.
[00:27:49] Speaker B: I love it. Well Dave, thanks so much for being here I've enjoyed our conversation Same here.
[00:27:53] Speaker A: Thanks for having me cheer.
[00:28:02] Speaker B: Hey.
