Episode Transcript
[00:00:14] Speaker A: Welcome to the Victory Show. I'm Travis Cody, best selling author of 16 books and I've had the privilege of helping hundreds of business consultants, founders and entrepreneurs write and publish their own best selling books. Most businesses hit a revenue plateau and struggle to break through it. On this show I sit down with some of the world's most successful CEOs, leaders, investors and business owners to uncover the strategies they use to overcome those plateaus and scale their businesses to new heights. If you're looking to learn from the best and get actionable insights can propel your business forward, you're in the right place. Today we have a very exciting guest. Her work is reshaping how we think about social impact, equity and transformative change.
Jenna Nicholas is the CEO of Impact Experience, an organization that tackles some of society's most critical issues. Structural racism, economic inequality and sustainable development. Through innovative and collaborative approaches. From post hurricane rebuilding in Puerto Rico to empowering women and minority led businesses, Genesis Leadership Bridge divides and creates lasting impact. Jenna is also a trailblazer in the world of impact investing, serving as investment advisor of One Planet Venture Capital where she supports early stage businesses in transformative industries. She's a Stanford graduate, she's been on Forbes 30 under 30 list. She's spoken on stages like TEDx and advised global organizations on equity and sustainability. Beyond her professional achievements, Jenna's commitment to service is deeply rooted in her faith and values which we're going to talk about today, exemplifying what it means to lead with purpose. So get ready for a great conversation packed with wisdom, passion, spirituality, actionable insights and creating a more equitable and sustainable world. Jenna, thank you so much for being here today.
[00:01:50] Speaker B: Thank you so much for the opportunity. It's great to be here.
[00:01:53] Speaker A: So let's start off with you've worked with some fairly big companies, so let's start off with your experience in the business world. How did you get started in the business? And then we'll dovetail into how that was the litmus for the idea of impact and how you launched that and what kind of work that's doing today. So did you know you wanted to be in business at a young age or did it find you?
[00:02:16] Speaker B: I appreciate the question and it's been a fun journey. I. I grew up in London and I did my undergrad at Stanford. I remember in my first quarter at Stanford I took a class and I heard from these pioneers in the field of social entrepreneurship and impact investing. And I called my mom back in London and I was like, I want to be a Social entrepreneur. And she's what is that? And I was like, I don't really know, but that's what I want to do.
And it really set me off on this path of exploration. And had the opportunity to work and still collaborate with Wayne Silby, who started the Calvert Funds, which is now a $45 billion socially responsible fund. And having the opportunity to work with people like Wayne. And within the Calvin Funds, which is really a sort of pioneering model of aligning financial returns with social and environmental impact, investing in areas like sustainability, education and health care, both into funds and directly into companies. And was based between D.C. and China. Doing this work, had a chance to teach at a business school, Tsinghua School of Economics and Management in Beijing, on these topics and have really opened my eyes to this world of the opportunity to be able to not just have models that were purely focused on maximizing financial returns and then on the other side have models that were just focused on social and environmental impact, but really how the two reinforce each other and how do they actually help to support that build out over time of, of one another. And so that set me on a path. Working in the space, I did some work with the World bank treasury with their Green Bonds team, helped a coalition of about 170 foundations representing about $50 billion in assets, shifting capital from fossil fuels, New economy Solutions. Went back to Stanford for business school and have continued on this path of impact and investing.
[00:04:13] Speaker A: So let's talk a little bit about that because I've had some interesting conversations on the show about you've got the business training, obviously, but then there's also the real world. So where did theory of business school meet up with the real world and where did business theory completely get it wrong?
[00:04:31] Speaker B: One of the things that's been really exciting over the last three to five years is seeing more institutional investors starting socially responsible funds because of pressure from their clients. And we see with the intergenerational wealth transfer more interest from the next generation in investing in a way that is aligned with their values. So I've had a chance to serve on the advisory committee for Apollo's Impact Fund, serve on an investment committee of a foundation focused on aligning their investments with their values, investing both directly and through family offices into impact oriented companies. So I've seen a lot of really like tangible examples of companies, funds and people looking at this intersection. Of course, as with any industry, there are naysayers and there are critique and if anything, that critique can often be a fuel to continue more rigor and the importance of Thinking about how do we measure social and environmental impact, how do we consider unintended consequences?
All of these factors are really important in building a successful and meaningful business.
[00:05:41] Speaker A: That's fantastic. So in your work with some investment groups, you've seen behind the scenes of probably thousands of businesses at this point. As an investment advisor, when you're looking to either acquire or invest in a business, what are the key things that you look for? That would be the green flags of the great opportunity.
[00:05:59] Speaker B: Yeah. So my work is spanned across direct investments into companies, as well as acquisitions of companies across the board. So much of it is around the team, particularly when we're investing at an early stage.
Being able to look at, has this team worked together in the past? What is their experience in the industry they're working on? Do they have experience building successful companies?
What have they learned from those experiences? What are the team dynamics look like all of those pieces, because the likelihood, particularly with early stage investing, that they're going to pivot and as they get feedback from customers, the company may be quite different from the company they're talking about right now. So investing in the team at the early stage becomes really important.
Also looking at what market they're in, like, how big is that market? The question people always say is, what is the total addressable market for companies? Aligning around what market these companies are going after is a really important aspect of will this likely be a successful investment or not? And very much coming with this lens of how is the team thinking about the social and environmental impacts of what the work that they're doing is. Some of the key areas that we tend to invest into are kind of climate, health care, education.
We'll also invest in other areas as well. And then really thinking about, particularly over time, as the companies continue to grow, how are they investing in culture? What does that look like? How are they thinking about across their whole supply chain, A consideration of what is the impact on the communities that they're working in. So some of these factors then become really important as well.
[00:07:42] Speaker A: So you're on the front lines then of seeing some of these, I'm assuming some technologies that are coming down the pipeline that are in pretty exciting stages. Are there any trends going on right now in sustainable business and processes that have got you pretty excited that you're seeing?
[00:07:59] Speaker B: I feel like every conversation I'm having right now is about AI. And I think what's exciting is that there are some really powerful examples of areas where there's an ability to have really great social, environmental impact and also use cutting edge technology and I think it's a really important one. There's a lot of conversation about what are some of the challenges that come with AI. But I think there's also a really powerful conversation and a really great set of companies that are using AI. To really be at that forefront in particular, I think becomes something for business models that aren't considering AI. How to make sure they continue to stay ahead of the curve because of the rapid pace with which AI is developing. So I had an opportunity just recently to invest in a company called Evity AI led by an incredible epidemiologist, Larry Brilliant. He was part of the team that helped to eradicate smallpox.
LED google.org has taken a number of companies public and they're really focused on using AI within the area of continuing medical education. One of the challenges within much of medical education is that sometimes the information can be five to 10 years out of date. So being able to use AI to have real time information that can then inform how the doctors are engaging with their patients, again, both a very important issue that can be addressed in society and has a great potential to make strong financial returns as well. So examples like that are companies that I'm really focused on and really excited about.
[00:09:39] Speaker A: When you're looking at initial startup investment and you're looking at the team, what is it about the makeup of the team that you're looking for? Like other specific leadership traits that are like the things that stand out as they've got the gumption for the long run? Because entrepreneurship is certainly not an easy game. A lot of people get burned out and crushed down pretty quickly. So what is it about the teams you're looking at that will stand out and make you go okay, yeah, I think these guys have got what it takes for the long run.
[00:10:07] Speaker B: I think exactly to your point, that sense of resiliency and grit and a desire and ability to see things through all those ups and downs and exactly to your point that the sad reality is that many companies aren't able to really scale. Being able to have that sense of commitment to the work through all the ups and downs becomes really important. I think a lot about concept around like level five leadership and sort of a service based leadership. Leaders that have a sense of humility and creating spaces of where people can truly thrive and that it's not a just a top down hierarchy but where the spaces are created for the true success of everybody to be able to shine and celebrate the power of what can come about when people come together from diverse backgrounds and that they have a track record of demonstrating an ability to do that in all different circumstances.
And I think also a fundamentally optimistic perspective on what's possible that people can go through that being able to have a source of strength that people can draw on that can help them to see where there's a possibility. Even when people may be saying it's not possible. Where do they get that sense of possibility and optimism from?
[00:11:35] Speaker A: So it's optimism based in reality.
[00:11:37] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:11:37] Speaker A: It's good to shoot for the stars, but also having a map to get there versus pie in the sky.
[00:11:42] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:11:43] Speaker A: So where is it in the startup stage? Where is it that some startup companies, and I should probably say a lot of them because not most people never get out startup stage. What are some of the big mistakes from a business and operational mistake? Have you seen and is there a commonality between startups that shut down after a year or two versus the ones that make it past the five year mark?
[00:12:02] Speaker B: I think a number of things. One thing is an inability to really listen to customers. Sometimes people get so attached to an idea and it may look beautiful, but are there people actually like willing to pay for it? That's part of the challenge. It can seem like it ticks a lot of boxes, but if there isn't product market fit, the ability to build a sustaining business model over time becomes really challenging. People willing to pay for it, it's also getting really clear about what it is that they're willing to pay for. And building around that and particularly at the early stages, focus can be really important. It can be very easy to be all over the place. It may make sense that once you've built a strong foundation to expand into other areas, but being able to really show that the business works in very concrete areas and then building from there to expand into other dimensions rather than being so scattered at the beginning that it distracts the team and distracts an ability to build over time. Make an inability to be able to also be responsive to changing trends in society. And you don't want to be so reactive to what's going on. But like I mentioned around AI, part of what we're seeing right now with a number of companies is they may have built, you know, what seem like really strong companies but are being totally challenged by the onrush of AI. So an ability to stay up to date with what are those broader macro trends and how does that influence the business and how to be responsive to that.
[00:13:47] Speaker A: Yeah, nobody wants to be Kodak or Blockbuster, right? They, they, they, those companies were perfectly positioned to capitalize on those technologies, but ignored them and was to to their downfall. So how, let's talk about the AI because obviously it's big, it's, it's getting bigger every day. As a person who's not in the AI space, but as a business owner, I sometimes feel overwhelmed by it. Just the onslaught of AI options. What are some of the good things coming out of the AI space and, and what are some of the things that you're looking at going it's just hypey or it's just noise?
[00:14:21] Speaker B: I think some of the applications in healthcare, education and climate can really advance some of these areas. I also think the legal industry and invested in a company that's also doing a lot of work in the investment area to make it that much easier to make investment decisions using AI. So I think there's a lot of opportunities to create more expediency around a lot of tasks that might have, you know, taken a really long time. It helped to skyrocket some of that work. I do think there's a very real challenge around questions around privacy and security and ownership and sort of the ethical frameworks through which we think about AI and what is the impact on workforce and how do we think about upskilling and reskilling in so many of these areas and that what are the right mechanisms for being able to create a system around that? So I've seen various investment strategies that are trying to provide an opportunity for those guardrails and a support system around that. But it's hard when there isn't a built in sense of the regulatory environment in which these AI companies are operating. So it puts the onus even more on both the business community and the investment community to have these very real conversations and to do so before everything is so unleashed that it's then that much more challenging to do so. There's a great documentary on Netflix called Coded Bias that talks a lot about some of the challenges around bias and AI and a lot of work has been in that area and I think that's also a really important one. How we're building AI systems. What are the data sets that are being used to create that and how do we think about the role that bias plays in that process as well?
[00:16:16] Speaker A: Interesting. Can you give an example of some of the ways that bias is showing up in AI right now?
[00:16:22] Speaker B: Yeah. So one to this point about what algorithms are being used. So there are these crazy examples of if you will ask different AI tools that how much would it cost for and you use a Trayvon vs John to buy a car. They will suggest different prices if the names are more black and brown sounding names versus white sounding names. And we've seen this in real life with real estate where different appraisals are given for homes owned by people of color versus those owned by white people. But seeing those same things in AI systems is pretty scary, right? Because it's the inability to disentangle. Where have those biases come from and how are they informing the advice or guidance or input that's being made? Of course, there's a broader challenge also around hallucinations of literally things just being made up. The medical example I gave earlier becomes really important in many industries. But in health care, if diagnoses are coming from things that have been made up by AI, it's really challenging. The need to have a check and verify process and to disentangle where the roots of the information come from becomes really important.
[00:17:45] Speaker A: Yeah, and that's fascinating, especially around the medical diagnosing. You think, oh, it can make this diagnosis and then it gives you something, but. And then you trace it back to the root and it's from some random conspiracy Reddit thread he was asking for a recipe on and it was about pizza and how do you make your cheese on pizza stick more? And it came back with a fuel. Mix non toxic Elmer's Glue with the cheese, it'll stick better. And so he was like. So he started tracing it back and he eventually found it was one thread on Reddit from a nine year old who'd made that post. But the AI was like, yeah, this is great. So how are programmers dealing with this? From a magnitude of understanding how the LLMs work and how much data they process you, We've got millions, billions of pages where that bias is in that information.
[00:18:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:32] Speaker A: So it's being trained on like how do you remove bias from something that's been trained on bias?
[00:18:39] Speaker B: That is exactly the challenge. And there are a number of initiatives that I are trying to engage around this. A lot of it is to this point of looking at what are those data sets that are being put in and how do we have more thoroughness in the process of evaluating what are those data sets that are coming in and then also greater feedback loops. All of the AI systems are in a constant state of learning. Right. So the more information that has been put in and the more people engage with it, the better it becomes. What I know a lot of people that think about these topics are doing, are trying to train the AI in the feedback that it gives. So if it says things that, you know, one can see a bias, it's like, you may consider this, but that's of course, you know, very local solutions. And like really we need more systemic around those.
[00:19:31] Speaker A: At the end of the day, as awesome as the AI tools are, it still requires a human touch at the end. There was somebody I follow in the marketing space who's probably the top guy in that space around AI. He was doing an ask me anything session and somebody asked, in this age of AI, what, what's the advantage for business owners? He said something I thought was really profound. Your ultimate advantage in the age of A is to become more human. I thought that was pretty insightful.
So you're obviously dealing with bias, systemic racism and inequalities. Where in your journey did the idea of the. The impact experience, where did that come out of in terms of the idea and then what was your journey to get that off the ground?
[00:20:09] Speaker B: There's a number of places. One was really looking at the investment industry. We see that $82 trillion in asset management industry, less than 2% is invested into women and people.
[00:20:22] Speaker A: That's how big the investment market is. $82 trillion.
[00:20:25] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:20:27] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:20:27] Speaker B: Yeah. So it's pretty crazy, right? When we think about the lack of capital being invested into women and people of color run companies and funds. We started about nine years ago bringing together a group of investors and entrepreneurs in New Orleans and looking at this issue of how we unlock more capital into people and communities that have been overlooked and underestimated. Seeing such deep engagement from folks that we worked with in New Orleans, we've done work in Montgomery, Alabama in southern West Virginia and a number of communities. And seeing this deep desire to look at within the investment decision making process and within hiring, retention and board selection, how to be more intentional about what role biases are playing on ways to mitigate against that and being thoughtful about building community around that. In the age of AI, we need more humanness than ever. We bring together people, typically 25 to 30 people over the course to two to three days, mostly in person.
And it really is this opportunity to build these deep relationships with people that then continue onwards after that time. What we've noticed a lot in this age of AI is that having these opportunity to build these deep relationships with other people that can then be a support system as people go back into their work and lives is more important than ever.
[00:21:59] Speaker A: So are there resources then as we're going into these communities?
My belief is anybody can do anything as long as they have the right guidance in the right direction. Right. That's the beautiful thing about business and entrepreneurship. If you're a hustle and you're smart and you're a go getter, you can succeed in the business.
But there are certain demographics that get more mentoring and training around those things. So going into Memphis or New Orleans and looking at businesses to invest in, yes, there's the money aspect. What also is there in terms of the guidance of helping them grow as a team, as a leader and a business owner?
[00:22:31] Speaker B: We really think about different types of capital. So there's both the financial capital, but also the social capital and the human capital. And we find often when we talk to people, after the experiences, the feedback is the financial resources are great and being exposed to other ways of thinking about things, other networks that can really help to move the work forward over time. Of greatest benefits of engaging in the work and I think a lot of the elements that we were talking about earlier around what leads to a successful business is a lot of what we engage with people around so that there is this sort of support system. As people are building their businesses, they're able to get feedback and be parts of broader systems to grow that work.
[00:23:21] Speaker A: The feedback is probably the most important aspect of that process.
Especially when you're trying to take a perspective you're used to and learn new perspectives. There's things you don't know, you don't know. So how is the work you're doing with the impact experience specifically in some of these communities? Are you. And then what are you looking for when you go into a community to support it?
[00:23:42] Speaker B: Yes. So for example, in Montgomery, Alabama, a lot of the work that we've been doing over the years has been bringing groups of investors, foundations, businesses and engaging with the community. Montgomery has a deep significance in terms of its role around the transatlantic slave trade and the deep history around the civil rights movement. Engage people learning that history, learning the present day reality, engaging with incredible entrepreneurs in the community so that they can then go back into the organizations. And there's both a goal of how are we unlocking capital directly into your organizations within the community? But also how does this then influence how people are thinking about their investment decision making processes and other processes as they go back into their work and lives as well. In any community that we work in, we really invest deeply in building partnerships in those communities and it's multi year engagements. Montgomery, our team is there pretty much every other month with different groups. We're going back there next week and it's been Amazing to really build alongside folks in the community.
[00:24:55] Speaker A: That's fantastic. When we first connected, before we started the show, we're talking about how much of an impact your faith has made in your business journey and how you've got some new initiatives to start to mingle business with faith. Let's talk a little bit about that.
[00:25:09] Speaker B: I'm part of the Baha' I community and it's been a huge inspiration for me. And I've been working on a book and a podcast looking at the intersection of spirituality, investing and business. And it really drawing from so much of the work that I've engaged in and seeing what is that inspires people to do what they do and how do they kind of continue to stay engaged and motivated even in challenging circumstances.
And have been, in addition to some of the investing work that I do and the advisory work and coaching work and the work with impact experience, have also been actively building off some of the M and A work they've done in the past. Also looking at some companies from an acquisition perspective with this goal, we're in a moment where the ability to scale impact oriented solutions is more important than ever in some of these areas that we talked about around climate, health care and education.
And so that's a big part of this next frontier of work, is really looking at how we deepen in some of those areas as well.
[00:26:14] Speaker A: Just that phrase enlightened bottom line, I think is such a great phrase. Besides the book, are there any other things you're doing around that concept of enlightened bottom line? Is that now something you're taking into when you're advising companies? We're trying to mix that in with some of the things that you're doing.
[00:26:30] Speaker B: Yes. So it's the framework for the advisory work, for the coaching work, for the investing work. So it's really a sort of framework instead of tools for thinking about how we bring together purpose, business building and investment strategies, drawing from deep insights from people intentional about these concepts over time.
[00:26:53] Speaker A: I love it. To me, it's really beautiful to talk to somebody who's bringing faith into business because, you know, Western, especially Western civilization, Western business, there's the whole cliche of the soulless corporation, the soulless businessmen. Right. So the, the fact now that we're shifting away from that, of getting away from soulless to getting enlightened and getting soul full and how we're approaching capitalism is really a fantastic thing. If someone's listening to the show today, they, they want to know more about you or get involved in what you're can they go?
[00:27:23] Speaker B: My website's probably a great place to start. Just Jenna Nicholas.com can also reach out to me on LinkedIn. There's a lot on the website of just all the things that we've been talking about today. And yeah, really looking forward to continuing the conversation.
[00:27:36] Speaker A: So if all goes well, when can we expect to see an enlightened bottom line book come out?
[00:27:41] Speaker B: Should be later this year. So later. 2025.
[00:27:44] Speaker A: All right. Fantastic. Jenna, thank you so much for your time. If you've joined us on the show today you're interested in seeing, you can find out more, go to my website, bestsellerbydesign.com that's bestseller by design.com. and we'll talk to you later. Thanks, Jenna.
[00:27:58] Speaker B: Thank you.
