Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign welcome to the Victory Podcast.
[00:00:18] Speaker B: Hey Victors, welcome to this episode of the Victory Show. If this is the first time you're joining us, I'm Rachel League with Bestseller By Design. Our founder Travis Cody is the bestselling author of 16 books and we've had the privilege of helping hundreds of business consultants, founders and entrepreneurs write and publish their own bestselling books as well. Through that journey, we've discovered a fascinating pattern most businesses really struggle to break past the seven figure revenue mark. On this show, I sit down with some of the world's most successful CEOs, leaders and business owners to uncover the strategies they use to scale way past that mark so you can do the same. So get ready for some deep insights and actionable takeaways that you can implement in your life and business. Starting now. Today's guest is Nikan Tharan, a mission driven tech founder transforming how immigrant talent navigates the complex U.S. immigration system. Nikon is the founder of Green Card Inc. Platform that helps high achieving professionals earn visas like the O1, EB1A and NIW, showcasing their accomplishments in compelling evidence backed ways. He also launched EB5 loan which makes the EB5 Investor Visa more accessible to by reducing upfront costs and allowing applicants to start the process. With 500k, a two time visa recipient himself earning an 01A in 2020 and an EB1A in 2022. Nikon's journey of resilience and innovation is featured in the Amazon bestseller Unshackled. His path began early. He was working in an Indian defense lab at just nine years old and later earned a full scholarship to Northeastern University. From there he commercialized radiation sensors with Guardian, joined the Techstars US Air Force accelerator and co founded Med6, a healthcare startup that won top honors at MIT. Hacking medicine get ready for an incredible conversation about resilience, innovation and what it really takes to scale a mission driven business. Nikan, welcome to the show.
[00:02:04] Speaker A: Thank you so much for having me so super humbled and honored to be spending time with you and all the listeners today.
[00:02:12] Speaker B: Awesome. Well, tell us, you were working in a defense lab at age 9 and you won a full scholarship by 16. That's pretty remarkable. What sparked your interest in tech and innovation so early?
[00:02:23] Speaker A: The kind words. So I'll have to give credit to my parents there. I'd say I was a pretty geeky kid and I used to watch Nat Geo documentaries and Discovery Channel documentaries as a pastime, so I always had that bent. And for my summer school activities it turns out that the part of Bangalore. So the city in southern India where I grew up in, there were a lot of Department of Defense installations. So my neighbor happened to run an electronics lab for the border security force. Starting the summer of my third grade, he kind of gave me free access to that lab and I spent all of my free time there. So they had to kind of peel me off the walls whenever they had to take me home. So I used to be there when the shutters open, when the shutters closed. So weekdays after school, in the weekends too. And what happened over time is I started absorbing different things, right? So I saw all the semester experiments being conducted that I saw students working on their capstone projects. I also saw some grant work being done. So national level grants, state level grants, the students were doing research based on grants. And I was just keen to help. So wherever it could step in, contribute, I started helping out. And over the course of a few years, it ended up helping me work on some national level tech projects. And I grew pretty passionate about electronics. Very bored with school. And I think it was seventh grade when I went to my parents and I said, I don't want to go to school anymore. And instead of me, this is India, right? And this is a decade or so ago, instead of giving a nice pat on the back and saying, hey, kid, you know, this is the path. This is what you're supposed to do. Like, okay, let's explore different ways. So I was actually homeschooled for a few years and it all turned out okay when I was very fortunate to get a full ride scholarship to come to the US And Northeastern, really open the doors for me. But going back to the childhood influence, so it was watching documentaries, it was reading books. I mean, I used to pride myself on having multiple bookshelves. And these are wooden bookshelves that you assembled from ikea. And those places, and the shelves had a bent on it because of the weight.
[00:04:49] Speaker B: Oh, that's plastic.
[00:04:51] Speaker A: And also childhood role models, right? So of course there was the electronics professor who was my neighbor, and my. But it was like Edison even. He had a very precocious youth. So he used to do experiments in the train and whatnot. And I think he set fire to a train compartment. So that's who I drew inspiration from. And later on, other innovators came as well. Edison was big. Mickey Okako was big. So for his high school project, he built essentially a particle accelerator. So those are the individuals I used to read their biographies, all of the books that especially Miki Okaku published and Those became like formative influences.
[00:05:35] Speaker B: Wow. Yeah. I think it's so wonderful that you had such support at home as well and that you had the opportunity to see so many interesting things that helped spark that interest in you and that that was fostered as well. Do you continue to love to read biographies and draw interest and inspiration from mentors that you perhaps haven't, but you get mentorship through their. Their written works.
[00:06:02] Speaker A: Totally. Now the format has changed a bit. So I do read biographies, but the ones I do are by Walter Isaacson. So recently finished his Elon Musk biography. But I've read several others. Right. His Ben Franklin one, Steve Jobs one. But the other consumption is podcasts and video. The one specific podcast, the Founders podcast by David Sandra. I mean that's incredible. And on YouTube, so there's someone who goes around getting nuggets of wisdom, the University of Hard Knocks. So he does it in a TikTok YouTube short format. And that I find very digestible. Late night or between meetings, if you're scrolling something. I mean it's. I feel it's more productive to scroll this content.
And then I do read about and listen to company building as well. So my first million acquired FM the startup ideas podcast business wars. So the medium has shifted, but that curiosity, that intent to learn has definitely not just mean it's grown as well.
[00:07:11] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Yes. This lifelong learning seems to be a really important part of your story and continuing to seek out almost advice from others and sort of understanding their journeys and experiences. And how have you applied that to your own personal journey?
[00:07:28] Speaker A: That's a great question, I would say when it comes to identifying a startup idea, I mean is the often given wisdom that you have to solve a pain point that you personally have and then there's also the wisdom that to be opportunistic. Right. So if your skills are able to identify and solve a pain point, then you should go towards that. So the reason I even draw a distinction between the two is because of my own founding experience.
So the first startup that I founded was a medical device and there I had a background in electrical engineering, in prototyping. So I met a surgeon who had a pain point. We, I mean it was his idea. So I just happened to prototype it and we ended up winning the first place at a hackathon at MIT and also got a grant from them to continue our work. And that was one startup which kind of took its journey. But the other startup which I work on today, which is helping high skill talent navigate the US immigration system, that's out of my own personal pain point. Right. So as you shared in the intro, I'm a two time visa recipient. The first visa I applied and I got it in a few days. But the second visa, the EB1 visa, that's actually a path to a green card and that it took me three attempts over two and a half years. So I was working on the medical device startup and this was in the middle of COVID but it's took, it still took me multiple attempts to convince uscis and that's when I realized that I'm, it's like I'm speaking a different language. I'm speaking French and USCIS understands Latin. Right. And I have to kind of be more effective at storytelling, at positioning all of the evidence I have and speak in their language. And that's the work that we do now. So we help high skill talent. So AI engineers at some of the Frontier Labs, a lot of founders solving interesting problems, present or make their pitch or present their case in a compelling manner to USCIS for different reasons. And this is a startup where, you know, I've kind of gone through the journey myself. I mean, I prayed that I would never be a user of the medical device I was building because it was a device after surgery and also specific kinds of surgery. So typically surgeries where you're removing tumors or similar like invasive procedures, but. But the impact was real. Right? Of course you're helping patients and saving lives, but this is a problem that I kind of myself went through. So in terms of the founding motivation and what that carries through and a reflection of it, which is the team, the startup that it becomes, it's very different. Right. But that's one main lesson I would say I've drawn is you kind of have to listen to the different startup advices and just try and see which one works best for you. Right. So there's no right or wrong answer, just up to kind of you to figure it out.
[00:10:58] Speaker B: Absolutely. Gats one thing as a founder is you're taking in so much advice from people all the time and it sounds like you're also seeking it out through your own, you know, self education, through books and podcasts. And you're right. It's about testing things and seeing what works for you and the specific problem that you're solving. And that is sometimes just a matter of trial and error.
The Med6 program that you created sounds really important and wonderful and I like the distinction you made though, about how you're solving that for other people. But Green Card Inc. Is really close to your heart because it's something that you personally experienced. And was there, is there a different feeling when you're solving something that you have personally gone through a different motivation or did you feel equally as excited and passionate about working on those two very different projects?
[00:11:48] Speaker A: The excitement and passion is equal, but it's also different industries. Right. So with medical device, you're prototyping, you're in a lab, the feedback cycles are longer. So it's going to take time for you to build something, set up an experiment, then get feedback and improve on it.
Whereas with some immigration, immigration tech, much shorter feedback times. You're also speaking to clients, different kinds of clients, on a regular basis. However, what's common is the sense of urgency.
[00:12:22] Speaker B: Right.
[00:12:22] Speaker A: So here, of course, there is a deadline, people have other visas that are expiring or they are making important life decisions based on a visa outcome. And with the medical device, there was always this mantra that we had is that the patients are waiting. So even if we had done a fundraising round and we had 12 months plus of Runway, we always kept that front and center, which is that the patients are waiting. So you have to move with that sense of urgency, pull all nighters, mean self imposed deadlines, so to speak, and push towards those outcomes. Right?
[00:13:03] Speaker B: Yes, yes. That balance of empathy and execution comes into play in both. It sounds like the immigration process is notoriously complicated and you mentioned that storytelling was really the key unlock for Green Card Inc. And helping others establish their visa status. Can you tell us how did you figure out that that was really the pain point, that they were, you were speaking French and they were speaking a different language and then how did you go about learning their language, if you will?
[00:13:32] Speaker A: It took me three attempts, so I kind of had to figure it out for myself. And it, and it took a few years as well, so it took two, two and a half years. So it was a process of you trust the attorney and the attorney is helping you navigate this system, but you also end up becoming your own lawyer. And this is before ChatGPT.
Right. So you're going through hundreds and hundreds of pages of previous decisions. Thankfully, a lot of these decisions are public. So you can go to the government website, download decisions, download appeals decisions, so you can see how USCIS or you can come to an understanding how USCIS thinks and evaluates applications, and then you go to the attorney with suggestions. Right. So I remember every call with the attorney, I used to have like 30 different ideas, which is why they probably didn't want to speak to Me anymore. As in they're like, hey Nick, and work with a paralegals. I'll speak with you once a month or so. Like final reviews, main questions. And I used to just like pepper them with questions, suggestions, what ifs, like, what if we do this, what if we do that? How would we present it a different way?
So just that mindset of constant iteration, right? Even if you're applying it in a very regulated space such as, you know, a visa petition, it's just constantly trying and I mean in a curious way or in a seeking answer way, asking why and not taking no at face value. Right. So if someone says something is not possible, understanding, okay, why isn't it possible? Is it written in the policy manual somewhere? Is it in any previous adjudication part of case law? Or is it because you might be an experienced attorney, you're not aware and this is the simplest answer to provide, Right? Versus digging deeper and searching for that truth. So now, I mean, what happens is when with case law it's dynamic. So enough applicants try something new, then USCIS realizes that okay, we have to accept this now, and then it becomes established as precedent. So two examples of this. One would be considering equity as high renumeration. I mean, for the longest time it was just salary, right? So you're in the top 10, 5% in your salary bracket and that's high remuneration. But then more and more people from the tech industry started using equity.
Now that's established as president and applicants are allowed to do that. And the second is with media. Podcasts weren't allowed for the longest time. So if you had any new age media like podcasts, blogs and other media, you couldn't use it. Then enough people submitted it, now it's precedent and applicants can use it. So that's what I'd say guided me on that journey is trying different things, of course, sticking to the guidelines, but kind of searching deeper for the truth. And if the attorney was aligned then going through with some new evidence which perhaps no one else would have considered or submitted before.
[00:16:54] Speaker B: Yes, with three attempts, it sounds like it was a hard won victory. With intellectual curiosity as your buoy and continuing to ask why and get to the root of both the issue to then find the solution.
As you think about the journey of green carding since its founding, what has growth looked like so far? And are there any particular milestones that you're especially proud of?
[00:17:20] Speaker A: Absolutely. I mean, it's been a little over two and a half years and now we are over a team of 50. And when we started, it was just me and my co founder. So we had gone through a similar journey. We had the same pain point and we're like, okay, how do we set about to streamline this process for others? And now, I mean, I don't want to say there are people on the team that I don't know the names of. I know the names of all the full time folks, but we do have contractors on the team that I personally, I mean, I'd see their face and remember the name, but I wouldn't know the names of the top of my mind. So that's definitely been a journey in terms of team building. The other is many times as a founder, you're praying for your startup to succeed. It's like pushing a boulder up a hill. Then there comes a time where you push the boulder and then it just starts running downhill, right? And you're trying your best to chase after it, keep after it, and it's kind of breaking things in its way. So that's something I realized too is when you're in that trying phase, you have a lot of people to commiserate with.
Like you can go to founder hangouts, you can call up your friends and you can be like, hey, it's not working out, that's not working out. And they all have challenges too, so you'll commiserate with. But in once you hit that inflection point and you're kind of trying to chase that ball, so to speak, then no one joins you for a pity party for success, right?
Oh my God.
You know, how do I, I mean, I'm taking 15 calls a day and my calendar is booked for two weeks. How, where do I get more time? Or how do I prioritize this call?
Or my head of sales, I mean, he had a change of heart and now I need to find a new head of sales or my R and D team. I mean, the person who I banked on as a hire, we interviewed her for a month and she quit on her first day.
So all of these challenges, which are mostly like personnel challenges, operational challenges, nobody prepares you for, and at the same time, you, if you complain, even from a well intentioned standpoint, there's no one to listen to your complaint, right? They're like, hey, we're still in that early part of figuring things out. But I mean, that's where having mentors is very helpful. But even listening to podcast, reading books is helpful is you can hear from people who have faced that before, right? So I've gone through that 0 to 1 and that 1 to 10 journey?
[00:20:14] Speaker B: Absolutely. You know, you often hear that the founder journey is a lonely one.
And I agree that there is a lot of support for the very, very early stages, but I think that's part of why people get stuck at this point of, you know, once they reach the seven figure mark or the first really big milestone, that's pretty hard to get to. And then once you pass that it, the, the funnel narrows quite a bit. And so I think it's wonderful that you continue to seek out inspiration both from your book mentors and also from people who have gone before and been able to scale. Because having that support and even just that sounding board in the highs and lows of an entrepreneurial journey, I think is, is really important to staying fame as a founder and helping to keep your energy and excitement for what you're working on.
Now you mentioned you've had this business for just over two years and you've grown your team to over 50 people.
That is an incredible pace of growth. And I know you mentioned you got that boulder up to the top of the hill and it just crested over. What was that boulder crest for you and did you grow your team steadily or just when the ball tipped over the edge and then you hired a bunch of people. Tell us about the process of building out that team and what sparked that?
[00:21:29] Speaker A: That's a great question. I would say the boulder cresting, it happened, it was a bit of an iterative process, but mostly it was just listening to the customers.
Right. And since we have had that experience, we're able to put together a creative solution for them. So our key insight was that there are law firms that do the filing component of the visas and then there's a whole bunch of folks who are recipients such as ourselves, who do like one off mentoring, coaching. And there was a gap which is, let's say if someone's qualified, they don't know that they are qualified, number one, education, awareness, number two, they are qualified, but they have gaps and they profile or they struggle with storytelling. Now how do we do this end to end and do it in a white glove manner where we are hand holding the applicant, we are evaluating the profile, identifying the gaps, connecting them with the resources to plug the gaps, and then at the end of connecting them with experienced attorneys who can help them with filing. But basically the customer experience, end to end is monitored and you're giving them that superior experience. So there are no breaks in between. So they're not going out of the ecosystem or the workflow to get any other work done right, such as academic evaluations, translations, business plans. So now we are able to support all of that in house. So that was a key insight is can we create this end to end experience and truly provide that white glove support where people can work with us from the beginning all the way to the visa filing and the visa outcome. So when we realized that, that's when the boulder crested the hit. I mean, it sounds kind of simple and obvious in hindsight, but at that time what we are thinking is, hey, we are doing our coaching and mentoring piece. How do we scale that up? So can we create like an AI mentor so someone you can just chat with and who can give you answers to your visa questions. So just like zoomed in and looking at just one part of that versus stepping back and looking at the bigger picture and what really was the pain point. But once we identify that as a pain point, then we quickly crested that hill. And honestly, finding people is easy, but finding the right people is so hard. And I used to wonder that when other founders, I mean, I was very fortunate in my first startup because I was in Boston. So there, I mean, you kind of throw a rock, you hit a Harvard PhD who has biomedical experience. It wasn't hard at all to hire engineers part time is to finish their work at the lab, take the evening train, come to our space and help us out, right. So we're very quickly able to find advisors, put together a team. But here, I mean, working in immigration, in immigration tech was so challenging to find the right people. And that took us a while. So we scaled and then the system that we had, right, so at 50, 70 applicants, that started breaking down. So we had to rebuild a new system. And then we scaled, kind of broke down again. And what we became a proponent of is, I mean, it surprises us now, but our team is like fully remote. There are a few people who are in one city, they meet up every now and then, but the team is effectively fully remote. It's just being very good at delegating. So even if the team members you're delegating to, if the work is subpar, you have to point out, make 100 corrections or give them a lot of feedback. It's better to do that a little early than later. So just trust and delegate. And if they don't perform, that's a different story when we have a difficult conversation. But we give them that time to grow, right? I mean, even with the sales team, sure, a few sales calls are going to be messed up. Perhaps Some conversions are not going to happen. But it's necessary for you to be able to grow and scale as a company. And this is true. Even if you have everything documented. You have the guides, SOPs, you have recorded yourself, and you have 50 training videos. No team member, when they start off is going to be perfect, right? So they're going to make mistakes and just delegate. Give them room to grow. And within a few weeks, and especially the A players, right, you'd know within two, three weeks they're quickly able to get up to speed and be effective as you and sometimes even more effective than you. But that was also the hardest part, which was knowing when to. I mean, the first was hiring, but the second was knowing when to delegate.
[00:26:48] Speaker B: Wow.
Your answers are so thoughtful and articulate and provide such a level of depth and insight into your process, both as an individual founder and the ups and downs of building this company, but also of some very tangible takeaways that our listeners can apply. So I just, I'm really enjoying this conversation and some of the themes that I'm sensing from particularly that last answer. It's important to have patience, trust, and also passion. It sounds like, you know, of course with your three attempts, you had to continue to be patient and you were passionate about what you were trying to achieve. But also with this process of scaling the company, it sounds like there was a lot of stop and go with the build and then break, build and then break as you continue to learn. And I'm sure that it's disheartening in those moments when the system isn't quite flowing the way you want. And so having patience and trust in your team, that you're picking the right people, trusting them by giving them the leeway to actually figure things out and show that they are capable of learning and then having this underlying passion that's driving you.
I mean, correct me if I'm, if I'm getting this wrong, but it sounds like you have a high level of empathy in addition to being able to execute. And that's been really important in building this very people driven business.
[00:28:11] Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I lean on my co founder for the empathy bit, but I would even my wife would agree with the driven bit. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:28:22] Speaker B: Well, tell us a little bit about, you know, in working with a co founder, how did you two find each other and what does the balance look like between the two of you?
[00:28:31] Speaker A: That's such a great question. I mean, the first time I met Ankaz, he actually reached out to me to inquire about his Visa. So that's how I knew. And most people get the O1 visa and then they apply for the EB1 visa because the EB1 is much harder. And we started talking, he wanted to learn more about the O1 visa. And then at the end of the conversation I'm like, hey, if you do all of this, we'll set you up for success for the EB1. And he's the only person till today who's like, I already have my EB1 approved. It's like, wait, what? And why are we even having this call? I mean, just keep half your application aside, mail it and you'll have your own approved. Because EB1 is a much higher BU. And that's exactly what his j. And he got his own approved. So we stayed in touch after that. And when we were reconnecting, that's when we realized that. So he had sold his previous startup, he was looking to do something new. And I had also gone through an exit the medical device, looking to do something new. And we both wanted to build something in the immigration space. And to be honest, I mean what I recommend people is you should do like founder, co founder, dating.
I mean see if you have a good working relationship with your co founder, pick a project, right, and work on it for three months. And in our case, by that third month we had kind of crossed a million in revenue. So it was, it was working then.
Exactly. So the boulder was over the hill and we were just like solving different problems for the company after that. Right.
But fundamentally, and I'll kind of give also credit where it's you, he's incredibly good at just the long term.
So there are certain things that he's said would happen and they have come to pass and that's what you need in a CEO, right? So you are making a few critical decisions in a year or even in a month, but they have to be the right decisions.
So that was. One is just like a trait of his is this is where the market is heading, this is where we should be. The other is he's incredibly good at product and also sales. And you might ask, okay, what do I do? So it's operations, right? So which is the day to day executing on all of that and making sure that in terms of even that long term vision, right? So if there is an acquisition we have to do, there's a partnership, we have to create any other kind of legwork that needs to be done. So it's filling those gaps and you very quickly realize that ideas, people they have a blind spot which is the follow through and paying attention to details and the paying attention to details people, they, I mean they are so particular, it sometimes it's irritating and I say that of myself. But the blind spot is the, it's very hard for them to get out of the weeds and kind of to see the bigger picture. Right. Which is let's say if you're kind of going 100 miles in one direction, it's very important to know if you're going in the right direction and if you're not to be able to course correct. Right. I mean it's way better than moving 10 miles an hour even in the right direction. But you do. So it's a good combination is what I mean to say.
[00:32:24] Speaker B: Lovely. And I mean you mentioned so many interesting parts.
One thing you said early on was or advice you gave to our listeners is to do co founder dating. Did you do any of that dating? And you know, how much dating did you have to do before you found your co founder or did you just happen to meet the right match early on?
[00:32:44] Speaker A: You had for a year before I, we started working together. Right. And we were in a stage where both of us wanted to build something in immigration and immigration tech and also we had done startups previously.
So we just by the nature of that we were pretty like low ego people is let's search for the truth. Let's not, you know, accept it doesn't matter whose idea it is, it doesn't matter whose area of responsibility something is. But let, let the best idea and the best solution win. Right. So we joust like intellectually joust fairly regularly. But at the end, but at the end of the day it's about doing what's best for, for the company. Right. And also we even life wise, we have more at stake. Farke has a one year old. I mean he's coming up at one year.
His baby was born the same day that I got married. So we are going through major life transitions at the same time. There's a level of, you could say six to the work that we do and intentionality seriousness that this is.
We are doing something at this stage in our life, it has to be meaningful. Right. So not just from an impact perspective, but from an economic perspective too because we both have bills to pay. So that's something which in our families they definitely keep us grounded.
[00:34:22] Speaker B: Right.
[00:34:23] Speaker A: And I say this because there is that stereotype of a, of a startup founder which is aiming for a moonshot.
Right. You can kind of be cramped in A one bedroom home or like a basement, I mean, pay little to no rent and just code your way away. That is definitely true for a very small cohort, for a larger number of people, they have life to deal with. Right. So they have families to take care of, bills to pay, which is why we never even went down the VC funded route. So we haven't raised a single dollar. VC funding. Our focus was always, okay, what can generate revenue today? So what's like a problem we can solve that helps us generate cash flow immediately?
[00:35:12] Speaker B: That's an excellent call out of. Even if you are solving an intermediary problem, how do you be self sustaining so that you can continue to focus your efforts and passion on what you want to without having outside influences? So I think that's a really important point that a lot of people glorify the process and sort of success of fundraising as an accomplishment in and of itself. But you go out and raise money if you do, in order to achieve your business goals. And so trying to delineate those and really put emphasis on what are you trying to do with the business, I think is an excellent call out and so impressive that you've been able to get such scale in such a short time without any external funding. And I think that really speaks to the fact that you are addressing an acute need in the market and that your solution is working really well.
I also really appreciated that you talked about, you didn't explicitly name the work life balance, but the balance of prioritization and how very few can go off into that garage. I love the imagery that you use, by the way, of the boulder and the garage. Really helps to paint a picture of what it means to be a founder trying to scale a business.
And as you think about these different priorities in your life, if you had to define what victory means to you today, what does that look like?
[00:36:29] Speaker A: Just based on how I was raised, right? It would be, it was definitely making my parents proud.
So especially as in school when I was homeschooled and then when I came to my undergrad here in the us but then you reach a point where even till today, they're like, hey, Nick, doesn't all of this set you up to do like a PhD very well? Or how about an MBA? Why don't you think of going back to school? Right. So I'm like the black sheep in my family as a result of that, because everyone else is basically a doctor for them. Academics is priced as an end on to itself. Right. I mean, my mother's currently doing her dub her second PhD. So not even kind of letting or getting the pedal of, of the gas at that age. Right.
But coming to the. Coming to what victory means. Yes, initially it was making my parents, making my family proud. And then when you develop that sense of agency and then when you start to your identity, I mean, you start to think of, okay, what, what does all of this, what does all of this mean? It became to honestly, it was more very internal and I would even say like selfish. Which was. It was to prove to myself I could do something. So it was to prove to myself I could be a founder, raise VC funding. As we were just discussing the one visa, get the EB1 visa. So always viewed these challenges as ways to kind of prove to myself. And that to me was victory for that period. And now it's kind of grounded in family again, which is to make my wife and my future family proud of me. So this I would say is grounding because there's always that balance to draw between your own ambition and that of taking care of those people close to you. And it's also good because this is something you're constantly striving for. Right. So there's always more you can do as a husband, as a father, and that part of it, which is how do we. I mean, what are the different ways in which I can gain victory in this manner? It's not just career starts as family, it's also health. So that plays a major role as well. You have to take good care of yourself. You have to make sure people around you are taking good care of themselves. Larger than us. The environment, the community that we live in, I mean, had never gone to the temple. During my previous startup, I used to pray to God. Don't get me wrong, I mean, whenever the fundraising round was tighted, I was pretty all the time. But now you go for that groundedness, right. So you go for that family community.
Honestly, to answer your question, that definition of victory has changed over the course of the past several years. The way I would answer it is yes, it's how to be the best husband. And I don't have kids yet, but future father that I can be. How to make the family proud of you. So that's how I would define victory.
[00:40:19] Speaker B: Yeah. Such a, an interesting journey of going from having, wanting the validation from your parents to owning it yourself. And now in this new phase of life as you bring in and care for others, wanting to support them in that way. And I'm sure that all of them are incredibly proud of you, what you've accomplished is truly remarkable. And to do it with such a humble demeanor and a clear passion for what you're working on, I am sure that will, will carry you forward. You mentioned the importance of caring for yourself and your well being. What does that look like for you?
[00:40:55] Speaker A: That is basically getting a gym in your basement. Because if you can't make it to the gym or any space, you just want to bring it close to you. Now I'm thinking whether I should even set my desk up next to all of the equipment. Because your environment really affects, you know, your well being.
If I'm, if I have some time, right. Rather get some reps in, some steps in what have you. But I'd say that which is 20 to 30 minutes of exercise every day, playing sports, I mean, I play some pickleball, going out for walks, allow sunset walks by the lake near our home. And whenever I'm in the Bay Area, I mean, beautiful mountains, right. So just taking around that. So it's pretty basic. But the key is, I mean, I just believe the key is like consistency, right. So I just never miss a day and if I do, I just feel very guilty for breaking that streak and I compensate the next day.
[00:42:06] Speaker B: Yeah. Yes. The consistency in creating these habits I think is really important to having. Even though your schedule, I'm sure is all over the place, it gives you some sense of routine and ability to ground yourself on a daily basis. But don't beat yourself too much.
Beat yourself up too much. I think this one day. But I understand the sentiment of, you know, having that commitment to yourself and that's important as you think about your younger self. What piece of advice would you offer.
[00:42:37] Speaker A: Such a great question?
Honestly, it's have or develop a sense of humor.
And the reason I say that is if I had told my younger self, don't take yourself too seriously, I wouldn't have listened to you. So I'd be like, oh, this grown up doesn't know what they're talking about. What do you mean? You have to be hardcore about everything that you do. Right. But if you had given me something more objective, something as like a goal to optimize for, right. Is hey, this is something you don't have and you have to kind of go out of your comfort zone in order to achieve it, then I would have taken that on and done it. Right. And I feel humor and by extension just not taking yourself too seriously, not attaching yourself to the outcomes, rather focusing on what you can control, which is the effort that you're putting in. Those are key. But that's a single thing that I would say is I feel that would have just permeated and it would have had all of these second and third order effects.
[00:43:50] Speaker B: Absolutely. Having perspective and the ability to laugh at yourself and keep things, keep things light even when it can feel really heavy is important. Well, Nikken, thank you so much for joining us. This was a fantastic conversation and I'm really excited to see where you go in the future. I know it will be incredible. So thank you again.
[00:44:12] Speaker A: Yeah, thank you so much for having me and really appreciate yours and all the listeners time. So if I can ever be of help to any of you listening, please feel free to reach out. So it's pretty accessible on LinkedIn, but my email is also first name, last name attherategmail.com.
[00:44:32] Speaker B: Fantastic. Thank you, Nikhin.
[00:44:35] Speaker A: Thank you, Sam.
